Latrobe Valley 8 Ball Association Inc.
Registration No. A 0016389 V. Affiliation Pool Victoria 2000 A.B.N. 53 071 518 494.
Chairman: Meeting opened by the President Wayne Taylor at 7:10pm.
Attendance: Special Committee Meeting met in accordance with Constitution 25. Quorum at Committee Meetings (1)
Executive Committee Members
President see Wild Turkeys, Vice President Peter Simpson see Turks Sports Bar, Treasurer see Average Joes,Secretary see Turks Cobra’s, Scorer see Turk’s Bar and Publicity Officer Peter Simpson see Turks Sports Bar.
Ordinary Committee Members
Rod Chapman, Alan Martin (Turks Thunders) Rick Merlo (Smashers) David Rash (Good Old Boys) Maria Schiavello, Sarah Goedhart (Ball Busters) Wayne Vanheerewaerden (Sports Bar) Alan Goodwin, Wayne Loader (Allstars) Mick Lubawski, Colin Young (MRSL Allsorts) Ted Norton, Lyn Bock (GJH) Andrew O’Neill (Sports Bar) Claire Blackford, Adam Skilbeck (MRSL Uglii’s) Anthony VanDeBurgt (Y’nth Bombers) Dean Kane (Yallourn Bowl Club) Paul Lewis, Paul Keough (Average Joes) Aaron O’Mara (Wild Turkeys) Henry Kolakowski (Turks Breakers) Tony McMillan (MRSL Greens) Chris Mayher (The Tav 1) Ann Rockall (Unexpectabulls) Snaz (Turks Breakers) Ash Vogt (The Tav 2) Anthony Dunne (Lenny’s Lads) Don McIvor (MRSL Reds) Graham Hodgskiss, Secretary Janet Hedt (Turk’s Cobras) Paul Pike, Steve Gray, Vice-President & Publicity Officer Peter Simpson (Turks Bar)
Association Members / Visitors: Duanne Morrell, Milo Fue, D. Vella, B. Muller(Top Pub Madmen)
27 voting LVEBA members present out of 54 members
Appologies: Tom Gill, Allan Greenwood Snr, Damien O’Brien, Alan Brooks, Sonia Scolyer, Andy Kersten.
Special Business: This meeting will be conducted in accordance with the Constitution 18. – 29. Committee Meetings. This meeting is made up of Executive Committee members and Ordinary Committee Members, ie the two nominated delegates from each team. Only the two delegates from each side from winter competition may vote. Anyone who was not a delegate please refrain from voting as this is a Committee Meeting.
1) We LV8BA received a letter from Wellington 8 Ball Association. The league which covers the Sale, Maffa area. (Letter of correspondence read) They have had an incident happen within their competition and they have dealt with it. Our Constitution reads that (Wayne Taylors understanding) we don’t deal with that further again. They have given their penalty as it was under their jurisdiction, and the courts to decide anything further. We are not here to decide should he have done it of if he should be suspended for the incident or any of those questions. We are here to discuss the fact that a member of our association has been banned from a pool competition for ten years, does that bring our league into disrepute. Our purpose is for the promotion of good fellowship amongst competitors and the advancement of the sport in general. (Constitution 2). Another part that is important to us is the eligibility for membership of our association. (Constitution 5(1)) You can only be a member of our association if you believe in the promotion of good fellowship amongst competitors and the advancement of the sport in general. Then we get down to step 9 (Constitution 9(a,b,c)) discipline, suspension and expulsion of members. We have to decide wether as a committee, based on the fact that someone has been suspended for ten years, not based on the evidence of what may have happened, is that guilty of conduct unbecoming a member. It’s upto you guys to decide as a committee and then the next step is deciding on a penality, fine, suspension or expulsion. Firstly, does anyone have any questions?
Graham Hodgskiss- As he wasn’t representing our league at the competition how does it then come back to us.
You are all representing our association/ league. If your partaking in an eightball tournament, wether your playing specifically for our league or not you are undertaking that sport as a member of our association. Any sport that follows on from our association, any cue sport, including snooker or trips away. Anything to do with the sport and activities that come out from our association, yes they are actually representing our league.
Snaz- Was he provoked and was there a police charge?—Wayne Taylor cut him off because we are not here to discuss the actual incident. What we have is a penalty. Yes there is a police charge and that is who is going to deal with questions like was there this or that or anything else. What we are dealing with is someone from our association has behaved in a manner that has caused them to be expelled for ten years from a tournament and to be taken from that tournament.
Anthony VanDeBurgt- This is not the first issue we’ve had from him is it? This is the first issue on the record. Everything else that has happened before, we are not going to use precident or anything else that has happened before because we are starting a fresh. I understand what you are saying but we are going to go by the book, clean slate, this point forward.
Wayne V- I think its fair to take away who it is and look at what it is.
A Player. If I came in and didn’t mention a name you’d all be more worried about finding out who it is instead of dealing with the issue. Take away the who. All it was, was a member of ours got suspended for ten years because of their behavior and we’ll leave it to the police to sort out for themselves.
Peter Simpson- One thing you’ve got to remember too. We rely on a lot of sponsorship as you just realized in the last season I just signed a major one. Now I have had sponsors calling me up since this incident. What’s this I hear about one of your players, Tazie. Its all around the town here and that’s not a good look, ya know. We are trying to better ourselves and promote the game and when businesses hear that sort of thing going on they, ask if its like the things that used to go on in the sixties and seventys, I said “no, no it’s just an isolated incident.” But I’m not commenting on it anymore, but I said it will be dealt with. I am just saying you’ve got to take that into consideration to that we’re trying to promote our league all the time now, trying to help juniors out which we just had recently then they see something like this happen and it looks bad. The main thing is that we could lose all our sponsorship.
Mick Luboski- They came up with a figure of ten years, how’d they come to that? Wayne T -They have looked into the incident and that’s theirs to come up with. Mick- What’s happened for them to go, why wasn’t it just a couple of years. If someone gets murdered they get ten years. He’s obviously done something wrong to that bloke that hes not saying nothing about that they’ve slapped him with that.
Duanne Morrell- Because it was a major incident, ya say ten years.
Wayne T- I’m not going to make any accusations but your right in what your saying, they don’t give you ten years for breaking ya cue early. It’s all irrelevant to what we are trying to look at.
Rick Merlo- Lets Vote
Wayne T- You are only voting on whether a ten year suspension warrants a fundamental.
Mick Lubawski- Half the people don’t know what it is.
Wayne T – you don’t have to know what he did. He got a ten year suspension, that’s what he did. Everyone stop. We will take questions one at a time.
Wayne V- We’ve just got to work out whether we want him to be punished or not. Does he deserve to be punished yes or no, that’s it.
Wayne T- No Its for getting suspended from a pool tournament for ten years. The rest is not our place to say or judge.
Andrew O’Neill- Look everyone probably wants to know the whys and hows about it but what Wayne is saying is right on the money. A guy has been suspended for ten years who cares why they come up with that figure, that’s their association and they did it for their reasons. We’ve just got to look weather he’s brought our game into disrepute. That’s what our constitution says, the letters been written, we just have to address it. Weather he has brought our league into disrepute. You can say it’s an event that had nothing to do with us, that’s true but at the same time everyone knows who he plays for and who he’s represented. Taz represents us on a country cup level so we have to consider that. He did come up against the committee before and as an error on my part he got off I think we need to listen to these guys and what they say about whether he’s brought our league into disrepute. If your think he has on the information you hear today on that and that only, if you don’t, you don’t. other than that lets not banter around too much.
Ann Rockall- I was at Bairnsdale, I was at Sale aswell. They know I play for this league and they have come up and asked me if anything has been done about him yet, I said no, it’s in the pipeworks. They are just appalled that it’s taken so long.
Wayne T- We are bound by our constitution to do things properly and I won’t rush it because people in Bairnsdale are appalled and do it wrong. It has been done wrong before and I won’t do it wrong and people have snuck away.
Rick Melro- Can you explain how that’s any different to two people from our league go out to a night club and punch on and they are known members of our league in our community.
Wayne T- They weren’t playing eightball or wearing latrobe valley shirts so they weren’t representing our league or after an eightball event. I can’t find a just reason to look at that. He was at an eightball tournament playing eightball.
Claire Blackford- I just want to make a statement, it’s not just a ten year ban we are taking into consideration it is also the sponsors and them asking the question now about what’s going on in our league so there’s that of course to take into consideration as well. It’s quite clear to me that he has taken this sport into disrepute cos we’ve got our sponsors are asking us what’s going on, they are going to think twice about sponsoring us next year, and in future. So yes it’s brought our league into disrepute.
Peter Simpson- It’s just not the sponsorship, the thing is that it made the Sale papers and everyone knows. I got back Sunday night and went down the street and people knew about it and what transpired. All the football clubs know about what happened. My son is on the committee at Gormondale and he rang me to ask what was going on. As a Executive committee member here as far as I am concerned he has brought our league into disrepute, weather you disagree with me or not, I don’t care as far as I’m concerned he has.
Maria Schiavello- Even though we play pool this is a sporting club, we follow the same rules as any other sporting club, just as we do in netball. You play in their league, even if you play elsewhere you still play in their league. They muck up they are going to be disclipined. You are always representing that league.
Wayne T- yes, absolutely, that’s what’s happening here.
Duanne Morell- Taz doesn’t only play in this league, he plays in other leagues. The only thing I am a bit vague about it is, What are they doing about it? My question is What is Pool Victoria doing about this? They come to us and want us to get membership, he also plays in other leagues so why is it us, why do we have to deal with it? I am not saying we can’t help with it, don’t get me wrong, but he has had so many misdermeaners in this association and ill tell you now he’s done some horrific things in this association …… Wayne T- We are going to try and not bring those things into it. Duanne- Where’s Pool Victoria in all this?? At the end of the day they are our governing body and we pay our membership so what are they doing about this?? It is a state thing!
Each league will decide what they are doing and send their letters on to Pool Victoria and they will have a hearing and decide from there. We are the first step. They follow us. Melbourne may be doing something as well. I don’t know. I think Wellington will send Pool Victoria their letter to, only Leon their president can answer that. We are leasing with Pool Victoria all the time. We are following all the steps so that it is done right.
It comes down to a simple thing, first of all, we need to vote, Do we believe he has brought this league into disrepute? Majority vote, only those winter delegates can vote. If your are unsure or don’t understand, refrain from voting. Do you believe a player from this league, who has a ten year ban for an incident at a pool tournament has brought this league into disrepute? Yes or No
Ash Vogt- representative from Wellington- This incident has, I actually ran the Gippy Cup and it has brought a lot a lot of shit on us. We no longer have a venue, we are finding it hard to get a liquor license, we have lost every sponsor already, all of them. Two teams said they won’t be coming back and basically, I am great mates with Taz, but for him to do that and even this other bloke, we are still in discussion about whether he provoked it and weather we ban him as well. When you decide on a vote, I’ll be voting, I won’t say what I’ll be voting, but he has stuffed up and we have a lot of work to do to find all out new sponsors so please consider that.
Wayne T- So we will move on to a simple show of hands.
Do we believe the actions of Chris Johnson for getting himself barred for ten years from the gippy cup an reprocussions and reflections on our league. Has It brought our league into disrepute?
Vote Taken- carried
After we send Chris a letter, Chris has the right to request a meeting to say anything he would like to offer and put his case forward. Then if we uphold our decision, he then has 28days to request a general meeting with every member of the association present to put his case forward, then we vote again. This is just the first step in the process and this will take time.
Qn- Should he have been here tonight
Wayne T- No. He could have come if he wanted to but he wouldn’t have been allowed to speak in his defense. We are dealing with the letter.
Next step is to decide the penality. A fine, a suspension, an expulsion. Expulsion means next season he can request to be part of a team and the committee looks at it. Disgression is upto the committee at the time. It is very messy. I don’t believe in fines, they mean different things to different people. Fines are never a fair penality.
Wayne V- Couldn’t we pass fine money on to Wellington to help out?
Andrew O- I disagree, we had a situation where a member got another member to pay a fine and that defeats the purpose.
Qn- Shouldn’t the police be dealing with this?
The league needs to be seen to be doing something. The police deal with the assult part of it.
Vote on Fine / Suspension / Expulsion
Only vote once
Suspension for specified period- carried
Vote for period of time
2 years - carried
Suspension starts at the end of all his appeals. He has two weeks to make his first appeal. He may continue to appeal as long as he likes.
We now need to send him a letter informing him of all this.
We can’t under our constitution impose futher conditions other than suspending him from membership. Like proving himself.
2) Letter of Correspondence from Wayne T to discuss changes to Summer Competition, by-law 3, Emergency Players amendment. Vote must be 75% majority. Proposed changes are
b) Players having played for more than one team are only be eligible to play finals for the team they have played the most games for. The original rule was to stop teams from sitting their players out and bringing in better players and paying them to help you get a few extra wins and bumping you up. D) still remains the same. The executive reserve the right to change results if this happens. This rule change is for those who filled in at the beginning of the season who weren’t already in teams and have now found themselves in teams and wanting to represent their new teams in the finals. As it is these people are ineligible to play finals.
Don McIvor- Commented if this gets in the MRSL would have a field day. Players would play two games here and there for teams and decide to play for those in the finals.
Wayne T- You wouldn’t get away with it because the executive committee still reserve the right to change results for stacked teams. Executive wouldn’t allow it. If you cheat all that players results would be removed.
You must play five games for a team to be eligible for the finals.
After 3 games for one team they are locked into that team.
Peter Simpson moved the proposed change
Seconded by Graham Hodgskiss
General Business/Around the Committee:
Jezza’s Turkeys- Leon Lett from Wellington 8-ball association has been diagnosed with leukemia. We are holding a fun day with a singles comp and other things at Maffra Golf Club. 15th September, 10 am start. We encourage everyone to get along and support Leon. Very worthy cause.
Don McIvor- Alan Greeenwood has been found to have a bleed on the brain and will be having surgery any time now. Our best wishes to Alan and wish him a speedy recovery. Hope everything goes well.
Final comment from President Wayne Taylor. The only reason I am here as President, I swore black and blue that I wouldn’t do this again, is to try to put some rules in place and get people following to get us through the season so that next AGM someone else can take things over and run it. There have been major changes within the last year to the constitution. Currently we have to inject model rules into our constitution to make it work and it makes it ugly. Once that new constitution is in place it becomes the executive committee’s obligation and job to understand it and to execute it. The rules are clear and set out on how our association has to operate to keep ourselves out of trouble and not get to a situation where we can’t play pool anymore. Those situations come solely not from the incidents that arise but from our ability to deal with them. If we follow the constitution we currently have it is long and drawn out and difficult. Sorry I have to drag you through these meetings, but they have to be done a certain way and I do get angry (sorry to Andrew) when I am told that I am not doing them right when I spend hours of my own time making sure I am doing it right so that if it’s appealed further down the track it does get upheld. In regards to that, like me, dislike me, I don’t care you won’t have to put up with me next year. Let’s just get to the AGM and keep things running till then. If I am putting you through boring shit meetings then I am sorry but we’ll get through them and I am doing it for a reason.
Under the new constitution, our committee set up is bizarre, 200 odd members and 60 odd committee members that’s crazy. Generally for a club / league that size you would have seven committee members. Because it was built into our constitution that two delegates from each team form the committee, that was fine when there was a maximum of twelve teams but when we got out to nearly 30 teams it makes it very laborious to try and get everyone together at the same time and focus upon the issues that need to be dealt with and to understand them fully. Under the new constitution, we will set how many committee members there will be but recommendations from consumer affairs vary between 7 and 15. 15 being a heap. Currently we are running at about 60. So the committee will actually be cut down to include basically an executive committee and six or seven other delegates roughly, it might be four or it might be 10, roughly. Committee meeting will be able to be called and held at someones place where the issues will be dealt with and when we need to get everyone together to decide on it will be general meetings and special meetings. But the committee meetings will be held in house and we won’t have to get everyone here because half the time we don’t know who’s committee members and whose not. The understanding that people should have is if you are one of the two delegates from the team then you’re a committee member with as much responsibility and liability as everyone on the executive committee. It is a position where you are supposed to understand every single rule in that book and you are responsible for all of us up here making sure every rule in that book is followed and that’s where the difficulty is. We’ve got a committee of 60 and 30 of them I don’t even think care about the rules anymore, they’d rather be just playing pool so let’s make them not be committee members anymore. They don’t want to be a committee member. Let them go. We’ve dragged them in because our constitution says we have to. Choose your members carefully! This is state legislation not just us deciding this. This was brought in because a lot of sporting clubs have ended us like us.
Wayne V- Put some thought into who we vote in, think very carefully about who you want representing us. Spend some time talking to people and find out what their thoughts are.
Meeting Closed: 8.10pm
Next Meeting: Turks Sports Bar on Wednesday 11th December. 7.00pm start. Be On Time.
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